330: Are There Nutritional Deficiencies with the Vegan Diet - with Daniel Eisenman!
March 11, 2021
Welcome back to the podcast! In today’s must-listen episode, Chantel got to speak with Daniel Eisenman. Daniel graduated Pre-Med from Emory University with a BS (Key Acronym) in Biology. Before applying to medical school to stay on the path of "NORMAL" as people advised him, he decided to "take a year off." That year off has now turned into a decade of BREAKING NORMAL adventures throughout all 50 states and at least 20 countries.
In today’s episode, we discussed:
How a Raw Vegan diet could be bad for your hormones and even make you chubbier?
How micronutrients can be missed with the Raw Vegan diet
How animal cholesterol can make your testosterone and sex hormones drive up?
Why Raw Vegan can be unhealthy if you don’t supplement?
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Daniel Eisenman: Hello, how are you all this is Daniel Eisenmann, usually I'm interviewing people for the Breaking Normal podcast, but today I had the honor of being interviewed by Chantel Ray from the Waist Away podcast. Enjoy!
Chantel Ray: Hey, guys, welcome to today's episode and I have Daniel Eisenman, and he is the author and podcast of something called Breaking Normal Dot Com. He's also the founder of Tribe Vitamins. So welcome today.
Daniel Eisenman: Thank you, Chantel. I'm stoked to be here.
Chantel Ray: So, Daniel, tell us a little bit about breaking normal. What is it about and what got you into it?
Daniel Eisenman: Yeah, I said Breaking Normal is the name of my book. That is basically the summary of what the golden thread of what I experienced of hosting health retreats for over a decade, specifically health through honesty. We create a pretty special sacred space for people to really fully express themselves, to really practice like a form of self acceptance through self-expression, like a little childhood, to be uninhibited in the way and feelings and thoughts that come up. And we held this space and some of the best environments on Earth for four night retreats. And I basically there was some really interesting patterns I picked up on of how people seemed to put a limit on their growth, like self-imposed limits on their growth, like a governor, just the other governors on certain cars that make sure they don't go beyond a certain miles per hour, how people put governors on their own growth, sometimes unconsciously. So the book is a series of exercises to be for people to help them break normal, to make sure that they're not just trying to fit into the herd, but they're truly living their dharma. Hmm.
Chantel Ray: I love that. So give us an example, because I think that's so true. I know that I've done that before and and I probably do it on a regular basis. But give me a really practical example of how someone could put a governor on their growth when it comes to weight loss,
Daniel Eisenman: Ah, for weight loss. I was getting ready to answer my life's purpose question, specifically a weight loss. That's a great. OK, right off the bat, if someone is using a scale. As their main barometer for weight loss. That could be a governor on their growth, because a lot of times, for instance, if someone is wanting to have a thinner waist, they may need to gain more muscle than fat. They need to lose, which means for their waste to be their ideal form, they might actually get to be heavier. And if they're relying on a scale is their only parameter for success, that would be an issue.
Chantel Ray: Hmm. That's so good. OK, give us another one. That was too good. Give us another.
Daniel Eisenman: OK, for me, I was given a really personal example on this one, I practice a raw vegan diet. And I was losing for four years, actually, and really strictly for months at a time. And the reason I got kind of caught in that loop was because at first I was losing a pound a day and most people I had met would do that. They would lose a pound a day if they only eat fruit, raw fruits and vegetables, nuts and seeds, especially if they were ripe and in season. And they would they would be OK, good for months and they would lose a pound a day until their body came to a natural no fat zone or really little fat zone. And what happened to me that worked and that worked for most people. What happened for me is eventually my testosterone got depleted and I started losing. I started getting skinnier and chubbier at the same time. And it was as this path that I found myself on as a clean way of eating. It was also the path that I lost my cell phone. I was so certain that the raw vegan diet lifestyle was the best way to eat long term, that the dogma kind of clouded my reality of what was actually going on. And I had no testosterone. I barely had any testosterone in my body, I got a blood test and I start eating wild salmon and I woke up the next day like a new man.
Chantel Ray: Wow. And I think that one of the things that is kind of scary about the raw vegan diet is just the amount of vitamins as far as B 12, your iron levels. Talk about that a little bit.
Daniel Eisenman: Oh, yeah. There's definitely a certain micronutrients that are going to be pretty challenging to find and that could really take a toll on someone's overall health long term, such as when some of the ones you mentioned like B 12 and iron iron, not from plant sources, there's a different type of iron from animal flesh that is arguably more bioavailable. I think it's called him iron. And I am by no means I'm not one to regurgitate too much scientific data. I think that's what Google is for. But I will say that this but this supplement right here would have been the ideal thing for me to have coming off the raw vegan diet, because eating just animal flesh after not having any animal cholesterol for so long was a bit overwhelming for my system. And being able to microdots on a raw liver, which I think is nature's nature's original and most potent multivitamin. And I think it does matter which animal you're getting that from, that that can make all the difference that that could have allowed me to probably be a raw vegan while supplementing on liver and with the way that I was thriving much longer. But because I was having no animal cholesterol, my understanding is animal cholesterol is a precursor to some of our sex sex hormones, such as testosterone. Then my body was just so it was starving. It was it was it was interesting. It was great. It was a great diet for me to be like a yogi. All I wanted to do is run around and eat fruit like a little hummingbird and meditate. And that was all good. But I had none of those primal desires or frequencies of wanting to reproduce and just nothing, no interest in women, no interest in the opposite sex, none of that. And I do think that for me personally, I say for myself, if I want to feel that primal drive eating wild animal organs especially will catalyze that for me.
Chantel Ray: Wow. So what does your diet look like now? So and how did that transition look like? And so if you said, OK, I went from being Rovi because that's a pretty huge, you know, 180 flips, a talk about how that happened, what had to fix your mindset and how your health has transformed since you made that decision?
Daniel Eisenman: Well, yeah, the beautiful thing about the raw vegan diet and I have a whole YouTube channel, my brother is called Rob Roar's. We were it was quite the show and it opened my eyes to a diet beyond the food pyramid, beyond what commercials tell me, beyond what the advertiser advertisers are paying millions of dollars to share beyond the medical schools that are funded by certain industries such as the dairy industry is just basically removed me from the group. Think of capitalism being in bed with health care and food advice. So I really got to I cleaned my whole body out and I got to learn how certain things treat my body. And the way most people eat meat is not good, especially if it's from a factory farmed animal that's that's freaking inflamed off of government subsidized grain. And then they're eating too much of the flesh, overcooked. It's not going to it's like eating leather. It's not going to sit in someone's digestive system, like eating a small bite of raw liver or raw heart. So what that what that did for me was I learned how certain foods treat my body. And I've been constantly experiments and experimenting and tinkering since then. And I've come to as a great diet for me, as a lot of superfood because I had access. I have to like superfood green drinks, a lot of green juice that I can freshly juice like celery if I want all from organic I, I choose organic. I vote with organic or beyond organic local farms. They are not paying for organic certification and supporting not only the local economy but healthier animals and myself by eating their byproducts to their eggs, their milk, their meat. And I think I think when you can eat within the seasons and you can eat wild animals, if you can eat fruits and vegetables with the seasons without pesticides and you can eat from wild animals the right amount. And of the right kind of byproducts, not just steak, but some liver, some heart, some of the other organs, and making sure they're not overcooked and making sure you're not eating too much at once. That's what I like to do. I typically don't even eat many calories during the day. It's mostly like super foods and different kind of shakes or coffee or different teas. And then at night I'll usually get down with some really ethically sourced bone broth, raw milk, maybe a steak or a chicken or fish or some sort of meat, maybe some potatoes, maybe some rice. So that's kind of how I eat currently. And the tri vitamins during the day, like, yeah. When I have this in the morning with coffee, I feel like I have a long lasting endurance where I'm just thirsty. I think a lot of people think they're hungry when they're just really thirsty. So I stay hydrated with high quality spring water and try vitamins and other supplements and then really chow down at night on a rich meal like an alpha from the wild would eat. My understanding what a pack of wolves are. A pack of lions takes down a prey like the zebra behind you have the bison behind me. The alphas will get the liver and the heart first and then the other animals will get their fill in. A lot of times they'll say they'll just leave the flesh meats for scavengers. So I'd rather eat like an elephant than a scavenger.
Chantel Ray: So I want to talk to look, let's just talk about the raw food diet, especially because raw vegan food diets. I personally know some people who really love this way of eating. And I want to kind of just describe it. From what I understand, basically, most of the raw food is vegan food as they don't like to eat food that is heated above one hundred and eighteen degrees Fahrenheit. And then the idea is to attempt to try to preserve the produces nutritional content. So basically they're saying, you know, cooking is kind of killing some of those enzymes and, you know, the heat is destroying the enzymes in the food. Right. Am I kind of getting that? Is that is that.
Chantel Ray: Well, that's definitely what you were thinking before.
Daniel Eisenman: Yeah, that was a major part of my belief as well when I went to Jamaica. And we're hanging out with a lot of the Rastafari culture. They thought that was the the highest calling, like while only eating fruit falling from the tree, no fire, no cooking, like rest. And I was like, yes.
Chantel Ray: Oh, right. And but at the same time, you know, there's other people that would say that, you know, there's if you when you cook at them, that it's actually better for you to digest because it helps you cook off some of the things. So it's it's almost like there's two different camps. You know, you've got this camp over here saying that heat destroys the enzymes in the food. But then you've got this whole other camp that says that human digestion, it really helps when you cook or sauté your food a little bit because it makes the food easier to digest, especially with like cruciferous vegetables, like kale, broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage that, you know, when you do heat them up, it's a lot easier for you to make it digestible.
Daniel Eisenman: Yeah, I totally agree with you. And I think that's the that's the situation with limiting one one's amazing seasonal body that's always changing with different desires and different needs, limiting it to one diet. That's the issue with it. That diet may have been created from a person that was going through a specific situation in their life that really worked for them at that time. They no longer does work for them. And I agree they're all right. It's like mangoes. They don't need to be cooked bananas. They don't need to cook. Just eat them right up now. Maybe a plantation or a potato or cruciferous vegetables, maybe they're better cooked a bone. Hey, if the meat off the bone much as you can, but you're not you'll never get the broth out without cooking it. And so, yeah, I think they're all right, they're all right, and the issue is one when one thinks they're the only one of them. That's right.
Chantel Ray: Right. And I think that's how you can get unbalanced is by you to say this is the only way to be like you can only eat this way. And you also have to listen to your body and see, OK, how do I feel when I eat this? And it's funny, as I've interviewed over thousands of women and there's lots of these thin women that I interview and they literally say things like, you know, when I eat cruciferous vegetables, I really feel so much better when I cook them because I feel better when they are cooked. And it doesn't mean you have to cook them to death. Right. But I really can. Do you know, someone might say I can really digest those foods and it cooking the foods helps release some of those nutrients and make them more absorbable to your body, especially if you have any kind of gut issues or anything like that.
Daniel Eisenman: Yeah, I totally agree. I think it's amazing the how humans over time have discovered, for instance, coffee by being able to roast coffee beans and pour hot water on them. Without that process, we've never been able to unlock the magic of the lifeblood of champions, the black gold of coffee. And I agree that like kale, cauliflower, broccoli, certain. Yeah, a lot of cruciferous vegetables specifically where ARAA vegans know everything has to be raw. I think they would have been much better off dropping the dogma of 100 percent raw and realizing that maybe I might be more in if I cook kale. Yeah.
Chantel Ray: Some of the raw food remove some different, you know, removing large food groups from your diet also can help and cause some serious nutritional deficiencies. So what, what kind of nutritional deficiencies do you see and what does your do your tribe vitamins offer? Let's say someone's listening and they go, you know, I don't care what you say. I mean, I'm doing a Rozvi, but I'm doing a raw diet, right or wrong vegan diet. Then you might say, OK, that's fine. If you are going to do that, then at least consider for your health. Because, you know, I think a lot of people who are vegans, one of their biggest things is they're so compassionate and they have such a love for animals and they've seen different movies and they see how they've been treated. And so part of it is like, I don't want to, you know, put an animal through that or something like that. But talk about how you've seen different things with people having these tri vitamins and how their health has really transformed from adding it in.
Daniel Eisenman: OK, and I'll speak not only about tri vitamins, but potentially someone that's any type of animal or again, after being Rovi or on a diet that might be deficient. I think a really common scenario would be for someone's nails to not look like they have lines in them or have some sort of situation where their nails, their hair, their eyes, their vision, their gum lines. When I was arava, what happened? My hair started being thinner and my gumline started receiving and my teeth didn't seem as strong. And there was obviously I was probably missing something like heme iron ore and all the the vitamin A form of from animal flesh and. What? What I would say is if anyone's experiencing any symptoms like that, like if you're like if your hair all of a sudden doesn't seem as strong, especially if you've been on a diet for a long period of time and it's like your hair not as thick as it used to be, or do your nails seem more frail? Are they not growing as fast or your gumline as your gumline residing? Or do you feel like you're getting skinnier and fatter like these are? These are probably indications of some sort of mineral or nutrient deficiency and of the organ meats from prey animals, especially like bison. The ultimate ultimate prey here in North America, lands or elk, they contain like almost all the micronutrients that one would look for in a blood panel there. It's like so loaded with retinol that you don't want to eat too much of it. That's why we make it in a microbus form that you can have like the equivalent to a few bites every day. You don't want to eat a lot of liver once in a blue moon. It's that rich. It's so rich and iron and vitamin A and then all the BVI, a lot of the B vitamins, especially B six twelve like folate and also as chromium, zinc and copper. And these are all and not a manufactured form. This is in the form that's found in the animal. And that's the same reason I think that these Alfa's that have evolved over time to go for the liver first. So that's what it is. It is like the nature's most potent multi vitamin in a bioavailable form that's not manipulated, just freeze dried, raw, freeze dried liver in a capsule. And I think the body recognizes that as a food and it sort of hits a lot of those with the most common testimonies are stamina and energy. But we've had a lot of miraculous ones from women that my hunch was they were iron deficient beforehand and like weird stomach things just disappearing like weird stomach cramps or uneasiness in their stomach, just disappearing and having immense amounts of long lasting energy all of a sudden.
Chantel Ray: That's awesome. And I think one of the things I love is that your bison organs are coming from bison that are able to roam and open pastures. They're happily grazing on, you know, native grasses all day and they're one hundred percent grass fed from start to finish. So and also not with fertilizers and pesticides and stuff like that, because, you know, especially those people who are really concerned about making sure the animals are always treated humanely and both when they're living and through the slaughter process, that should make somebody who maybe is really passionate and cares about animals also say, OK, I can feel good about. So then I know I'm feeling good. Right. This is giving me everything I need to have a great life, have the energy I need, fill my body with the iron, the B twelve, the vitamin A that I need. But also I'm being kind to animals as well.
Daniel Eisenman: Yeah, that's totally correct. I definitely believe that out of all my dietary experimentation that how that animal lives, I will. That energy is in. That food is in, the meat is in the flesh is in the liver. And that's a big deal. So yeah, we only work with one hundred percent grass fed and grass finished bison, which is less than I think ten percent of the current supply, 90 plus percent of bison suppliers finished their animals on grain and we don't work with them. So our aim is much bigger than just scalability. Like from a business perspective, it's kind of like what we're going to be guys doing. And it's funny, I interview this guy named Ronald Cohen today, and he's all he's a venture capitalist known as the father of British venture capital. And he's all about impact investing where the investment has a value. What you're doing to the environment. And my aim is to bring enough awareness to these animals, the national animal of North America, the biggest animal in North America. Their herds are extremely their hubs in their poop are extremely good for regenerating the plants and only working with the ones they're doing a hundred percent grass fed. And then hopefully within a few years, all the rest of the bison suppliers will stop taking these animals to the feedlots and stop feeding them grains. It's not necessary. I understand that they are using government subsidized grain and there's a financial incentive and there's a cultural conditioning around like marbled meat. But we can make this change like literally. So I'm asking people to vote with theirs if you're buying supplements or especially multivitamins. Vote for this one and maybe the the rest of the bison industry will take notice.
Chantel Ray: So what are some benefits that you've had from changing your diet to to going from vegan to adding meat back in your diet? What are some other benefits that have come into your health?
Daniel Eisenman: Yeah, I think it's totally around as a male, especially in my testosterone, I, I feel a different type of power and sharpness and groundedness where when I was only eating raw, being a diet, it was very I was very flighty, very ungrounded, very much like a bird. Or I could just be at the beach all day and not a care in the world. It brings me back to the reality that I'm in. And when I feed my body wild animal nutrition, I get to remember the wild animal that I am. And I start to I start to embody that more personally with the tribe. By the lately, like literally yesterday I broke not a nail, but a nail clipper. My nails have been growing ridiculously fast and I'm very suspicious of my vision. I want to get take a vision test. I think my vision has gotten so much better and the nails in the hair thing is a very common side effect for someone that might be eating a raw vegan diet for a long time and then starts to incorporate animal organs into their diet. They'll probably notice, like, whoa, hair, nails and probably a libido, something in their libido, like a wake up call.
Chantel Ray: So what else would you say that subconsciously that people are kind of telling lies, that people are telling themselves that are really holding them back to getting to the weight loss goals that they want to achieve?
Daniel Eisenman: Yeah, I think it's probably looking for labels, looking for labels like I was this kid friendly. Is this paleo friendly? Is this vegan? Is this vegetarian? What what buzz word can I be sold on today? That's outside. My intuition is the fact of the matter is that my body in your body is changing every moment and especially every year, and especially based on our current needs. Like, am I facing something that's really challenging in my life or am I just looking to relax? Like to me, that's much more important than my diet choices are much more about that than what some label tells me. And I think when someone is trying to limit their diet to some sort of label, they may be forgetting their best dietician and that's their own inner guidance. Like what is your body craving? What would taste really good? Maybe find out a way, a muscle test, maybe find some sort of intuitive testing or maybe shutting your eyes like what's the what what is my body want right now? And most likely the answer will be some sort of natural whole food that is found around you. And it might be the seasons for them.
Chantel Ray: That's so good, because I think that my favorite you know, I was when I just finished my fourth book, and it's called One Meal and a Tasting. And the reason why it's called that is because out of me interviewing all these thin women, I've realized that intuitively, like they don't sometimes they might eat one meal a day. Sometimes they might eat one meal and something small. Sometimes they might have two meals. But on the regular, they're eating one meal and then they're having something smaller later in the day. But again, I almost called it the intuitive eater. And because every one of these thin women had a philosophy of eating that they were the expert of their own body and their own hunger signals. And so they never had anyone impose guidelines about what they should avoid or what they should eat or how they should do it. They are the one who say I'm the best person, not me, but them. Right. Are the best person and the only person to make those choices, to be an intuitive eater. And looking at their physical hunger to saying, you know, is my stomach growling, am I getting fatigued? Am I emotionally hungry, am I sad? And my lonely and my bored, you know, and really being intuitive to saying I'm only going to eat when my body is physically hungry and when my biological my body is telling me it's time to replenish nutrients. I'm completely on. So I love that. That's so good. Well, what have I not asked you that you want listeners to know or understand?
Daniel Eisenman: Well, I to add one more element, to add another addendum to that, your previous question and to affirm what you were just saying. I'll tell you, the people that also get caught up in certain rules or documents around their diet, I think that's one of the worst things someone to do is to eat something they don't think is good for them. So my number one ingredient in all my foods is a gratitude, and if I can be grateful for every ingredient and realize that I'm choosing to eat this because it's good for me, to me that that could be so much healthier if even if it's a brownie or a donut or from Dunkin Donuts, whatever it is, if I can be if I can contemplate how did every ingredient get and that's a donut and how is it impacting each person that put their hands on every ingredient. And it's quite complicated with a donut. Hence I don't eat many donuts is pretty easy with an apple or it's pretty easy with a bison's. And I think coming at my food with that attitude of gratitude and being able to pray for every ingredient is much more powerful than if it's keto friendly or if it's fast food.
Chantel Ray: Awesome. Yeah, I love that that's so good. Well, Daniel, this has been so awesome. Tell listeners where they can find you and where they can follow you.
Daniel Eisenman: Yeah, so you can. Daniel Eisenman, my name on Instagram is probably the social media social media site that I'm the most interactive on. So you can always send me a message on my Instagram. I usually reply and or Facebook and or Danieli breaking normal dot com. That's my email, which is my website breaking normal dot com. And that's where I would suggest if you want to check out a podcast or check out the book on audio particularly, that's what I would suggest. An audible GPCRs reads the foreword and I read the rest. And yeah, if you want to try some of what I would say is nature's original and most potent multivitamin going to try vitamins, dotcom, put your order in and you'll be able to start micro dosing on that in a few days. I suggest taking it maybe on an empty stomach in the morning with coffee if you drink coffee. But it's an awesome it's an awesome way to I would say, remember. And remember and rebuild ourselves, hmm?
Chantel Ray: I can't wait to try it because I am every time I do any kind of lab work, my doctor always tells me that I'm iron deficient, even though I eat a lot of red meat. And so I think I just still have some gut issues that I need to work on. But I am my ferritin is usually low in my ion's low. So anything that I take that has, you know, any Gilliver support or anything like that or bison, I always feel like a million bucks. So I'm really excited to try it and I'll let you know what I think.
Daniel Eisenman: Yeah, I'm super excited for that. Well, especially if you're doing blood work somewhat consistently. I think this is going to be one of the best things you could take. And then I can be like, whoa, whoa,
Chantel Ray: you before and after that, it'll be really exciting for me to say. Well, thank you so much for being with us, Daniel. This has been great. And you guys, stay tuned. We've got another episode coming up in just a few. Bye bye for now.