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209: How To Workout With Intermittent Fasting and LOSE THE MOST While Working Out - with Siim Land!

February 24, 2020

Welcome back to the podcast! Today’s guest is Siim Land.
Today, we’ll be discussing:

* Lose weight with oxidative priority
* What is the difference between fat oxidation and fat loss
* Rates of fat oxidation
* Adding Cardio sessions
* How to get over 10,000 steps per day
* How to eat more Protein

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This podcast is a SIMPRONTO MEDIA production.
***As always, this podcast is not designed to diagnose, treat, prevent or cure any condition and is for information purposes only. Please consult with your healthcare professional before making any changes to your current lifestyle.***

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Read Transcript

[00:00:00] Hey, guys. Welcome to this week's episode. And I'm so excited to introduce you to someone named Siim Land. It's spelled S.. I am last name. Land and he has a Web site, seem land dot com. And today we are talking about intermittent fasting and autophagy. And, of course, losing weight. So welcome. Seem to help people a little bit about yourself. [00:00:26][25.9]
[00:00:27] Yeah, well, you did say my name correctly, so that's good to hear. But it's a it's an Estonian name. And I live in Estonia. So what I do essentially is just create content about optimizing your health, longevity, fitness. And that's all the things with different biohacking techniques. That includes end of the fasting exercise, taking sonars, doing some cool exposure and like everything else related. So I have like a Web site which is essentially like a blog slash article competition. And I have a YouTube channel and I've written several books about nutrition ketosis as well as autophagy and fasting. [00:01:11][43.8]
[00:01:12] Wow. And Estonia, is that. Is that near Finland? [00:01:15][3.4]
[00:01:17] Yeah. Yes, totally underneath Finland. Wow. [00:01:21][4.2]
[00:01:22] OK, great. Well, we're going to jump in and I'm going to just ask you a bunch of questions. So talk a little bit about how intermittent fasting helps with a Tophet G. Explain what autophagy is and how intermittent fasting really helps. [00:01:37][15.3]
[00:01:38] Yeah, well, autophagy is like this. It translates into self eating. And it's this physiological process where your body eliminates certain pathogens, different dysfunctional cell parts and just inflammation and these different aggregates that tend to accumulate there because of being either exposed to certain toxins or just living in general. So ontologies, this very intricate part of healthy siller metabolism and there is some lots of algae happening almost all the time in different degrees, but especially increases during energy stress such as like fasting. Calorie restriction, exercise or even soreness. And those things. They all promote this essentially like the siller or turn or where your body starts to clean out the house more rapidly and more thoroughly. And fasting itself is a way of kind of mimicking all of the benefits of color restriction when it comes to autophagy and other or longevity mechanisms. So it's calorie restriction is very beneficial for slowing down aging and just improving general metabolic health. But the key parts of why this works has to do with autophagy and several other longevity pathways that get activated during it and with fasting. You can kind of sidestep a lot of the negative side effects of color restrictions such as like malnutrition and losing muscle. And you can still gain a lot of the beneficial size of the of these longevity. And in a way, the intimate fasting is also very beneficial for the dislocated rhythms and your body's chronobiology. So your body's always kind of adjusting its metabolism based upon like the cues that it receives from the environment. And those cues can come for India in the form of light as well as food intake. So kind of confining your eating window every day with the fasting. You can also improve your circadian alignment with the environment. And that again, actually supports or promotes the the functioning of autophagy and again protects against many, many of these metabolic diseases that all lot of people suffer from. [00:04:00][141.5]
[00:04:01] I love how you said I run on your on your Web site. You had said that a lot of people think that fasting is the F-word. Like, don't skip a meal or else. And the truth is that eating three meals a day is really not good for you. It's Devean in nature and fasting is what we should be doing. That's the norm. US eating three meals a day should be you know, that should be an exception to the rule. If we're having, you know, we're on vacation or we're really kind of indulging that day. [00:04:31][29.8]
[00:04:32] Right. I wouldn't say that it's harmful, but it's definitely like not not ordinary for other species, especially as well as humans in the past. So, yeah, we didn't used to have like these a very planned out meals three times a day with snacks and et cetera. We were kind of experiencing very, you know, random meal times and sometimes we would eat only maybe once a day, some. I would imagine we would have eaten maybe four times a day. And sometimes you would have not eaten anything for like several days in a row. [00:05:04][32.4]
[00:05:05] So this sort of a puncture, this kind of disruption in our balance and disruption of this habitual eating causes these positive beneficial stress response that the body has to adapt to. So to say it caused it, it creates this. It's called cornices stories about Weddady. What doesn't kill me make you stronger. And that's how fasting also is supposed to work. You disrupt this homeostasis. You disrupt the balance that your body is constantly in. And a lot of the time in the modern world, we tend to live in this very stagnant state where all the we're not really experiencing deviations from the norm. Everything is just, you know, stagnant. When you think in terms of the food intake as well as the temperature add in terms of things like the physical movement, etc., we don't experience this disruption where our body has to adapt to the new stress and adapting to a stress is beneficial in small amounts. And it's definitely very useful for like increasing fitness and protecting against, you know, just general degeneration. [00:06:08][63.9]
[00:06:11] So. [00:06:11][0.0]
[00:06:13] The one of the things you talk about is losing weight with oxidative priority. Captain mine. What does that mean? What is oxidized and priority and what do you mean by that? [00:06:25][12.3]
[00:06:27] Yeah. Oxidative bywords essentially means that there's a hierarchy of fuel sources that the body uses. So there are many different kinds of sources of energy that the body can tap into. And there is a certain hierarchy based upon the metabolic status as well as like the particular physical conditions that your body is currently under. So, for example, one of number one oxidative priority is actually alcohol hands because like alcohol itself is like a toxin and that the body tries to get rid of as soon as possible. So whenever you are intoxicated from alcohol, then the utilization of other fuel sources such as carbohydrates and fat decreases a lot and your body kind of starts to focus on burning the alcohol instead of the other nutrients. And the other other nutrients are like protein, carbs and fat that have a like a lower priority. And fat has actually the least priority in this particular order. Your body tries to, you know, burn through it's essential nutrients or like it tries to use the essential nutrients first before it actually taps into its own body fat stores. So that's why you need to actually be in on like a calorie deficit in order to start burning your own body fat stores, you know, because it's like a backup fuel. It's supposed to be this energy store that you can deposit like in this vast amounts of calories and you only start burning it when there's actually like a necessity for it, but also like doing the exercise itself and the physical conditions you experienced doing today. Does those also affect this hierarchy? So, for example, if you're just moving around the house, you're not, you know, doing some intense exercise or you're just going for a walk. Then your body is already burning primarily fat for fuel because the intensity is low and you have a lot of fat that you can store. On the contrary, if you're doing something like sprinting or that is intense, some weight lifting or go to the gym, then your body switches over to burning glycogen for fuel because glycogen is like a backup fuel that is supposed supposed to help you to run away from predators. And in that case you burn more glycogen. So if you had you could keep these things in mind that it can also kind of make adjustments to like the microdot ratios that you eat in a given day. So if you are ever physically active, you do a lot of explosive workouts and this intense, intense exercise, then your you can get away with being more card as well. Whereas someone who is more sedentary, they didn't burn through that much glycogen and therefore they don't need that many carbs either. They can they can eat more low carb and a higher fat ketut out in that scenario because their body is already burning through more fat during the. [00:09:18][170.8]
[00:09:19] OK. So I want you I want to make sure I understood what you said. So you said so when you're doing intense workouts, you're going to be using more glycogen for fuel. And then you said, but when you're walking, you are using more fat for fuel. But but here's the thing. [00:09:43][23.2]
[00:09:43] It really doesn't depend on how much glycogen you have in your body to start with. Right. So like let's just say I have this much glycogen in my body, whether I'm doing walking or whether I'm doing intense, intense workout. [00:10:00][17.4]
[00:10:03] Do you understand what I'm saying, like I'm not following what you're saying? [00:10:06][2.8]
[00:10:07] Well, well, like for for for example, you can you can do low intensity physical activity in a low glycogen state and still burn fat. So to say it depends on the particular intensity of the exercise and there's like a crossover crossover threshold where where you start to burn more glycogen as opposed to fat. And it happens around like for most people it's around 65 percent of your V02 max. So if you start breathing through your mouth and you can't breathe through your nose anymore, then you switch or what you're burning glycogen for fuel and for it. For example, even if you do run out of your glycogen stores during that intense exercise, or if you start doing intense exercise with very low glycogen and you burn through that glycogen, then the body still needs glycogen to carry out that physical performance. Sort of say and it can't eat in order to achieve that, that it's going to convert some of its own amino acids sors or it's essentially is protein and muscles is going to convert that into glycogen through the process of going to Genesis. If your glycogen is depleted during the intense exercise and in order to replenish the glycogen you need to either consume some carbohydrates or just to rest and recover. So the so the glycogen stores can replenish themselves even with fat, but it has to take like a longer period of time for approximate like 24 hours of not doing anything to replenish that stores. But you can't directly take fat and start using that fat for the intense exercise even if the glycogen gets depleted. [00:11:54][107.4]
[00:11:55] Oh my gosh, this is so huge. So I want to stay here for just a second because this is one thing that I just had a guy on our show and we were talking together and he was talking about how when he was going to the gym and he was doing high, high intensity workouts like like doing weights and then cardio weights and cardio like an interval program. And, you know, he was doing intermittent fasting and he wasn't losing the kind of weight that he he wanted to do. And then he switched and then he just started doing walking. He is like, I'm just, you know, and then he said that the exercise was making him eat too much because then he was just so ravenously hungry. So then he was probably eating more than he needed to. And then he switched and said, you know, I just moved to doing walking. And he's like I started losing all kinds of weight. So do you think that that is exactly what you're saying right here? [00:12:56][60.5]
[00:12:57] Yeah. Yeah. That's a that's a very common problem. Like people. They do this crazy hit hit programs where they're burning through a bunch of glycogen all the time. And they're also eating like a low carb diet. They're doing fasting and kind of piling these stressors on top of their body. And this leads to losing their muscle mass because their body essentially burns through the glycogen and starts burning through the muscles as well. So yeah, that that's exactly like the problem. [00:13:24][27.0]
[00:13:25] A lot of the times it's actually better to focus on doing resistance training, which is which is like an intense form of exercise and it does burn through glycogen, but it's not you don't burn through the glycogen that much and you actually stimulate the muscles to promote protein synthesis. And I initially addition of increasing the lean muscle mass. So with that you can just essentially improve your body composition by burning through the fat and also increasing the muscle mass which will increase your metabolic rate and makes fatness easier as well. So yeah, a lot of times it's not that you need to do more cardio and spend more hours on the treadmill. A lot of the times you just need to actually to do the right type of exercise in the right dose and like at the right time. [00:14:13][47.6]
[00:14:14] So do you know this is kind of a big thing that people go back and forth with? Is on the fact that when you do. I've heard a lot of people saying you should do cardio in a fasted state and they say you should not do resistance training in a fasted state. Can you comment on that of what is your opinion on that? [00:14:40][25.9]
[00:14:42] Yeah, well, I think it would depend on the goals of the person and their preference. So you it is true that your rates of fat oxidation are higher if you exercise in a faster state, but fat oxidation doesn't necessarily equal fat loss. So a. Sedation just means that your body starts to burn more fat as a fuel source. Like I said earlier in in regards to the oxygen is a priority. So you're gonna raise the amount of fat that is being transported into your mitochondria basically, and how much fat or you're burning about it on it to still lose fat from your body fat stores. Then you have to be at a calorie deficit over the course of the entire day. So it does promote like it can improve how much fat you're burning during exercise. But whether or not you're gonna end up losing body fat. Depends on what you do afterwards and how much food are you eating. So it's not going to give you like this free pass or he's not going to give you this get out of jail free card in terms of that. But it's just gonna me maybe shift the the Occident priority a little bit. But when it comes to resistance training, then doing resistance training in a passive state will be more catabolic. So to say it's going to be more damaging to the muscles and you may lose more muscle because of that. And that in turn, if you do it all the time and chronically and you don't compensate for it, then you may just lose muscle mass and that can just lead to suboptimal body competition and that sort of thing. But you can definitely prevent that by making sure that you eat enough protein afterwards and getting enough calories as well. So this is so it's not like a black and white thing that if you work out fast and then that's gonna equal muscle loss, but not a lot of times. Let's say if you want to fully optimize your performance and strength development, then ideally it will be better to have like some some especially protein before working out because protein is going to be the one that protects against their Masaka tabloidism. That happens during your workout. So yeah, it's a maybe for people who are doing some form of innovative fasting then is a good practice to maybe, I don't know, do some walking, go for a long walk in a faster state before they eat their first meal and then then do the resistance training after they have eaten something. So they'll say this or that that will actually be able to push up those other. [00:17:18][156.3]
[00:17:20] OK, so what is the difference between fat oxidation and fat loss? [00:17:26][6.2]
[00:17:28] Yeah, well, like I just said, the fat oxidation just describes the process of how your body produces energy at a particular moment, like what kind of fuel substrates are being used to generate ATP in much of countrya. So the ATP is the energy currency that is used for all of these physiological processes. And you can generate ATP from many things such as oxygen, such as glucose, fat and other other fuel substrates. They can all all create ATP. And if you are using fect for producing ATP, then that's fat oxidation. Basically you're burning fat but fat burning wood. A lot of people just use fat burning as a way to describe fat loss as well. But fat loss, is that your losing body fat? So to say you're losing the body fat. You know what? If it's thaws? So it's kind of different from fat oxidation. You can you can be in ketosis and not lose any weight by having higher rates of fat oxidation, but not losing body fat because you're eating too many calories. So fat loss is governed still by the calories and energy balance. You can't you can't overeat calories. So to say. And still expect to lose weight. [00:18:45][76.4]
[00:18:46] So let's talk about. I would say the number one thing question that I'm getting lately from people obviously is intermittent fasting podcast. And a lot of people are losing weight. And so let's pretend that they have 60 pounds that they want to lose. They're losing 30 to 40 pounds right away, like they're doing a six hour window. They are eating what they want, but they're just dropping 30, 40 pounds. Now they've still got 20 or 30 more to go and they can't seem to be there. Some of them are like, you know, I'm working out. You know, I'm doing this. I'm doing that. I cannot lose that last piece. So what would you say? Are some like if someone just wanted to lose that last 20 or 30 pounds, what would be your suggestion for them? Talk about like what their workout would be, what they're eating, when would look like what? What do they need to do? [00:19:48][62.1]
[00:19:51] Well, I think if a person is already working out and then adding like a few additional cardio sessions would be would be beneficial because it's essentially going to make them burn more calories during the day. And even if it doesn't doesn't have to be like a specific cardio workout, it can be just walking in general. You know, walking increases the amount of steps you take per day. And this is this is essentially like burning calories. So any anyway, you get more movement into it. A can be beneficial for breaking a plateau. And one of the problems is also that as you lose weight, then you may start to subconsciously move less because your body wants to preserve energy. So kind of setting a goal for yourself of how many steps you take per day is a great way to just keep yourself more accountable and consistent. So, you know, I myself, I always aim to get like at least 10000 steps a day, but on most days I still get like 12000 or 13000 something of that. So it's just a good, good milestone to aim for every day. Secondly, I would also I would also encourage you to increase like their protein intake, because a lot of times people tend to underrate protein and higher protein diets in in almost all cases lead to better body composition. They're going to encourage muscle growth and also fat loss. So protein also protein has like the highest thermic effect of food, which means that your body expends more, more energy for digesting protein and you're wasting more or more calories for it. I just think it and your higher protein diet is also more seats eating. So you will just feel full faster. And they also help you to build muscle. So if you have more muscle tissue, then you'll start to burn more calories at rest without doing anything. So high protein diets tend to be better in almost all cases. And though they don't cause any negative side effects for most people unless you have like some serious kidney disease or something. So they're pretty safe for almost all people. And lastly, I would also look at general stress management, so to say, because stress can just lead to subconsciously eating more calories as well as just being uncontrollable with how many calories you want to eat. So stress makes you raise more or release more cortisol. Cortisol also promotes slight insula resistance and. It can also just make the person want to eat more calories. So why would those? Those are the three things I think some people can use. [00:22:36][165.7]
[00:22:37] And for women, what is eating window that year saying that people you're seeing people really lose weight on it. [00:22:47][9.7]
[00:22:48] I think the standard, the average or the golden golden rule would be to try to do with a 16 and 8 fasting where you're fast for at least 16 hours and eat within eight hours. So there's no like a huge reason to be doing any longer than that. But some people may just prefer to either, you know, change it up a little bit by eating only maybe within six hours or less or something of that. That will be like just their own preference. But six in an eight would be the golden golden rule for me. I think that that aligns with this again and rhythms and just gaining some of the benefits from the fesses. They do it all. [00:23:26][38.0]
[00:23:27] Gotcha. So for me personally, when I did an eight hour window, I didn't lose weight. So I had to bring it down to a six hour window for me to be able to really lose weight. I felt like I just needed that extra time for me to really be able to kind of shed the way it did, like six hours and sometimes even less, sometimes only one meal a day or only in four hours. So as far as eating. Tell us what what is your eating window look like? What is your exercise regime look like? What is your eating window look like for you personally? [00:24:03][36.1]
[00:24:06] Yeah, I personally I do like it's at least like one meal a day, but with a slight nuance. So like I mentioned earlier, I don't, you know, working out in a fast as they can lead to more muscle loss. And that's not my goal. So you should never want to lose muscle. And that's why I actually consume like protein shake during the workout. And it kind of mimics like an actual meal. I'm getting sufficient amount of protein to protect against the muscle loss that happens during a workout. And I'm still able to progress, which would also help me to get stronger and build muscle tissue. So yeah, it's like a one and a half meals a day or something and something like that. And yeah. You know, workouts tend to be primarily with resistance training. I do. I do go to the gym maybe once a week, but on most days I'm doing it like Kosta Nik's at home. So that's that's my preferrable way of working out. And in my in my post-workout meal, I eat sufficient amounts of protein with like meat, eggs and some vegetables and some some healthy fats with some tubers as well. So kind of kind of like a low low carb, high protein diet with one meal a day. [00:25:26][80.7]
[00:25:28] So then so what time do you workout it in the afternoon? [00:25:33][5.3]
[00:25:34] OK. [00:25:34][0.0]
[00:25:35] So somewhere somewhere around 4 or 5 p.m. so you workout around 4 or 5 p.m. and then right after you. So you're not eating anything during the day then. So your work. So all during the day you're waking up, you're not doing you're not doing any kind of workout or eating. Then you wait, you'll work out at 4:00, then you're having a protein shake and then you're having dinner. Does that sound right? [00:25:59][24.0]
[00:26:00] Yeah. It's about right. Yeah. Like I do go for walks during the day time to get the sunlight and get some fresh air. And also like get my steps in. And I may the only things that I do consume during the fastest are, you know, teas, water and black coffee. [00:26:17][16.8]
[00:26:18] Hmm. Yeah. So yeah. So I workout in the mornings like early in the morning. So I might have to try that a couple of times to see how that works. So just wake up in the morning, eat in and you know, just don't eat anything, don't workout. And then are you eating any. Are you having that protein shake you're saying while you're working out. [00:26:38][20.5]
[00:26:40] Yeah. Like in between sets so to say. [00:26:42][1.9]
[00:26:44] Just so basically, you're eating one meal and a shake each day, then basically, yeah, yeah. [00:26:50][6.0]
[00:26:52] Got it. And that's how you're feeling the best. Like the optimal performance. [00:26:56][3.6]
[00:26:58] Yeah. Like I have I've gotten like adapted to sort of say so initially it can be definitely somewhat more difficult, but currently I don't feel any different. Sort of say I don't feel I don't feel tired. I don't feel that I I don't have energy during daytime, etc. So I can still still perform and get my things done. [00:27:18][20.1]
[00:27:19] Now, what are you do you have an aura ring or do you have any things that you kind of say, here's some of the things I love to use. Do you have any of your favorite products that you love? [00:27:30][11.1]
[00:27:31] Yeah, I do use the euro. I think so. The selected one of the best sleep talkers that I know of. And yes, very valuable for getting getting getting information about sleep as well as just the heart rate variability and basal heart rate. So they're very kind of valuable databases. Other things that I like to use. I'd just they'd like a blue looking glasses, especially an evening, so that you would start to wind down and start producing melatonin, the sleep hormone, and you kind of fall asleep better. So I would think that's a good combo for if you want to optimize sleep, then getting like O-ring and the blue locker's, then the really good. [00:28:12][41.1]
[00:28:14] That's awesome. [00:28:14][0.3]
[00:28:15] Any other products that you just kind of what are you using to track your steps? [00:28:19][4.1]
[00:28:21] Well, the oring has a step step tracker as well. So we're getting like the amount of steps. So I'm using that using that to check yourself. [00:28:30][8.5]
[00:28:30] Yeah, I I the one thing that I love, like I don't wear jewelry. I don't I'm obsessed with this or a ring. It's amazing. I like it's one of my favorite things because I don't like the watches. It just gets on my nerves. But I feel like the ring I don't even hardly notice that it's there. And it's just I do every morning I wake up. I literally check my sleeve to see how much sleep I'm getting. How much sleep are you getting each night? What's your scores looking like? [00:28:59][28.9]
[00:29:02] I think my well, I get I sleep about seven hours, seven, seven to eight hours every day, and my scores are around like 80. Somewhere down there, my deep sleep is pretty high. Like usually it's two to three hours, but my REM sleep is slightly lower around like 1 1 hour to one and a half hours on most days. [00:29:25][22.8]
[00:29:26] Awesome. I love that. [00:29:28][1.6]
[00:29:29] Well, this has been so much fun. Thank you so much for being on our show today. Tell listeners where they can find you and where they can follow you. [00:29:36][7.5]
[00:29:37] Yo. Thanks for having me. And my Web site DCB Land dot com. And on all of the other social media platforms, I'm also seem lond. So yeah, pretty. [00:29:46][8.4]
[00:29:46] There's only probably one in the world, right? You're probably the only one. [00:29:51][4.3]
[00:29:52] We'll see. Well, well I think maybe a few more Estonians are with the same name, but not definite enough votes outside of Estonia. [00:29:59][7.3]
[00:30:01] That's awesome. Well if you have a question that you want answered, got questions at Shantelle Railway dot com. We'll see you next time. Bye. [00:30:01][0.0]

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